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orkdom · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: WAAAGH!! Da Fantuzee Greenskinzz

Played my first couple games of fantasy today with my own army. Lost horribly both games. Oh well, there can only be improvement from here, right? Orcsez nevva runz away, we juss' charge in anuvver direkshun, royt yeh weedy zoggerz?!

(Any uv yoo lotta gitz got sumtin ter say ta dat den yooz kan wot tokk ter me boot-printz after I leavez dem on yer face!)

Anyhum, I thought a little bit about some lists. Here's the first I've come up with. It involves my purchasing/making 4 chariots and 2 shamans and a goblin and a wyvern....and doesn't use the 60 black orcs, giant, 21+ snotling bases, and boarboys (as of yet sans boars Confused

) I already have in my possession, not counting any of my footslogging black orc heroes.

This would mean a lot of work, which I'm not entirely partial to when I've got a new ork codex and apokalypse already providing stupidly large monkeys for my back. But I think I like it more, and actually it might turn out to be cheaper as I really need either chariots or boarboys, and I do still need to get the actual boars for the boys to ride on! While I really, really love the Black Orcs, I just don't think I can afford to take them in smaller points games since they're special and have to compete with the only 'fast' units an orc army can even take. Which sucks. A lot. I'll still build them, and try them out before I give up on them for smaller point games.

Well, enough blither and dither- here's the list:

Da Krimzun Feendzz— Orcs and Goblins 2000pts

Characters:
[Lord, General] Black Orc Warboss Nargrukk ‘Ard Kangutzz, Da Krimzun Feend
— Heavy Armour, Ulagzz Akkrit Axe, Enchanted Shield, Effigy of Mork, Nibblazz Itty Ring, and Wyvern mount. 446pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Orc Shaman Wazzneg da Shokka, Feend uv Gork
— Idol of Gork. 150pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Orc Shaman Wurrzog da Big Zzappa, Feend uv Mork
— Staff of Baduumm. 140pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Goblin Shaman Trikkzy da Snot, Feend uv Bork
— Staff of Sneeky Steelin’. 140pts

Character Total: 876pts

Core:
24 Orc Boyz with double Choppaz, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 198pts
24 Orc Boyz with double Choppaz, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 198pts
24 Orc Boyz with double Choppaz, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 198pts
24 Orc Boyz with double Choppaz, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 198pts

Core Total: 792pts

Special:
Orc Boar Chariot with extra Krew. 85pts
Orc Boar Chariot with extra Krew. 85pts
Orc Boar Chariot. 80pts
Orc Boar Chariot. 80pts

Special Total: 330pts

Army Total: 1998pts

Comments anyone?
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Seancho · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:04 am Post subject:

its very green...but is it TOO green, I wonder... Confused

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orkdom · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:51 am Post subject:

You mean the font colour? Razz

I think I understand what you're getting at...too many orcs with nothing else? But how about what you think I should change it in for?

This is based in large part off of talking with Mark for a while after our games. The idea is something like this: Wyvern flys 'round the back while the boys march up and chariots hit flanks for a nice little bit of encirclement. The Shaman's provide some fire support from magic missiles and/or utilize the WAAAGH! power to give the boyz the charge a whole lot faster. Very Happy

I don't think this list is at all perfect, but I like some of the basic Ideas involved. The Wyvern boss is here to stay for sure. Although I could always stick a great shaman on the Wyvern and give him Kaloth's Skull for giggles....probably not.

"too green is unhelpfully vague....
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kalador101 · Starting Line Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 290

Overall I would say your list looks like a good start Geoff.

You have 6 wizard levels. That is good enough for most games. You may occasionally run into Skaven, Vampire, and Chaos lists with double digit numbers of power dice, but they tend to be looked on as beardy. Believe me no one liked a Grey Seer and 3 warlock engineers even if they did end up going off like firecrackers.

You have a decent number of troops. However, you may want to increase it a bit more. With my dwarves, I was able to get over 100 models in 2,000 points with reasonably equipped heroes. With my skaven, I was able to get over 200 models in 1400 points! A few more models could serve you well.

Your heroes look to have a bit too many upgrades. You are spending 45% of your army's points in 4 models and nearly half of that is in your general. Flying and terror can be wonderful when they work. However, when they don't work, your general will be hanging out to dry in front of your army and may very well end up getting killed. You are also failing to take advantage of the leadership bubble provided by him. Perhaps cutting the mount and using those points somewhere else may prove useful.

I'll admit to being rusty at Fantasy. Some may be able to help you better. My tips were simply designed to provide you with feedback on how I would try to build a greenskins army.

Kerwin

Seancho · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:47 am Post subject:

It's a good list. I was being a smartass as per usual.
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orkdom · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:

Kerwin, this list also breaks 100 models: (24x4=96)+4 heroes+4 chariots=104

I had thought about the leadership thing, and that still worries me just a bit, because I was originally planning on having lots of black orc heroes running around with my boys quelling animosity issues and providing army standard bearers and generalship. So leaving my boys with nothing but a lot of madboy shamans for company while the boss flys off into the sunset/oncoming horde of enemy troops feels like a bit of a risk with only leadership 7 and all those silly psychology rules fantasy has, like the way too significant possibility of my whole army running after a couple bolt thrower shots into the middle unit make it test for panic (or whatever) at their rather inglorious Ld7.

My biggest (in fact my ownly) problem right now is how limited special units feel for the orc list I wanted to run originally. I wanted 2 units of black orcs (I do have 60 of the things lying aorund here...) supporting the boys and quelling animosity and generally being scary-looking, but that means less chariots, and they're also a lot more expensive than chariots. And I also would really like to field some boarboys (I've built the boys for 30 of them damnit), and thought some rock lobbers might be a good addition.....

Everything I really am interested in using seems to be in the special category. And I can't get fast moving units outside Special without taking wolfriders or spider-riders, and I just don't want that many goblins.

I'll work out a new list and post it soon. I think if I re-work my hero choices (maybe put my general and an army standard on a chariot instead of regular chariots?) I may be able to get more options in the Special area and a lot more points with which to make those choices.

Geoff
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kalador101 · Starting Line Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 290

Hello Geoff,

I agree that you have over 100 models, and think that you try to avoid falling below that number. If you did, you could stand a chance of being outnumbered by dvarves. As dvawrves generally play with the expectation of being outnumbered, that would not be such a good thing. Point per point, dwarf warriors can be some of the toughest troops in the game. For the same points as your orc with 2 choppas I get +2 LD +1WS + 2(3 in cc)SV losing only -1A -1M.

Lets assume that both units are 5 wide with no heroes. You charge me due to movement. You will get 8 s3 attacks and 3 s4 attacks. 4 s3 attacks will hit along with 1.5 of the s4 attacks. You will get 1.3 s3 wounds and about .75 s4 wounds. My 3+ save will mean that your s3 attacks will get 1 wound about 50% of the time. The same could be said about the 4+ save vs the S4. Thus on average you will kill one dwarf. That leaves me with only 5 s3 attacks back. I will hit on 3s giving me only 3.3 hits. Wounding on 5s gives me 1.1 wounds. Since you only have a 6+ save, there is a good chance I will also cause a wound. Thus you would be drawing on the charge assuming all other factors are equal.

I think the idea of moving your heroes onto chariots is a good idea. that should free up the points needed to increase your numbers so you should not fear an even fight vs dwarves.

Kerwin

P.S. I excluded my slaves, but point per point they probably beat the dwarves as they are s3 ws2 t3 Ld2 for only 2 points

orkdom · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject:

New list attempt:

Da Krimzun Feendzz— Orcs and Goblins 2000pts

Characters:
[Lord, General] Black Orc Warboss Nargrukk ‘Ard Kangutzz, Da Krimzun Feend
— Heavy Armour, Ulagzz Akkrit Axe, Effigy of Mork, and Ironback Boar mount. 251pts

[Hero] Black Orc Big Boss Skumzog Irungorr, Da Butcha uv Bork
— Armed to da Teef and Orc Boar Chariot mount. 165pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Orc Shaman Zogmagog Deffrukka, Madlad-Feend uv Mork
— Staff of Baduumm. 140pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Orc Shaman Wurrzog da Big Zzappa, Feend uv Mork
— Nuffink, runt! 100pts

Character Total: 656pts

Core:
20 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 130pts
20 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 130pts
20 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 130pts
20 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Musician, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 130pts

Core Total: 560pts

Special:
Orc Boar Chariot with extra Krew. 85pts
11 Orc Boarboyz with Choppaz, Spearz, Light Armour, Shieldz, Standard Bearer, Noggz Banner of Butchery and Boar mounts. 281pts
15 Black Orcs with Armed to da Teef and Standard Bearer. 207pts
15 Black Orcs with Armed to da Teef and Standard Bearer. 207pts

Special Total: 780pts

Army Total: 1996pts

Edit: Oh, kerwin, choppas give +1 strength too, so I do a little more damage in your example. Wink

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kalador101 · Starting Line Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 290

Ah, I failed to notice that choppas give you +1 str the first round of combat. It would probably tip the balance so you would have a good chance of winning the first round by around 1 wound. This is not counting my hatred, but I don't think the rerolled hits will help much with rank and file troops.

I like your revised list. Having more models should help you get around people's flanks and have a better chance of outnumbering. About the only armies that will stand a good chance of outnumbering you will probably be other O&G and Skaven(I almost made it to 275 models in 2k for a large horde).

The only thing I would have you consider after a few games would be the Battle Standard Bearer. The reroll on break tests can prove invaluable, especially with your lower leadership. There is also the fact that it would give you the chance to make another centerpiece model for your army beyond your army general.

See you at CMU at Noon.

Kerwin

ColdBloo3d3d_Ki113r · Snotling Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 215

I would like to try O&G as well. The idea seems fun. I think i will do a mix of goblin and orc, just so i can have quick flank troops*spider riders*.
It also means i get to use cheap goblins if i have some points left. O and how many points are black orcs?

Other than that basically an orc bigboss and lots of orks.

Weze goin ta stomp some humies! WAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
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orkdom · Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject:

Working on this with some people on the-waaagh. What do you guys think?

EDIT: finished the list, put in a lvl 2 shaman and BSB w/ spirit totem for some magic fun.

Da Krimzun Feendzz— Orcs and Goblins 2000pts

Characters:
[Lord, General] Black Orc Warboss Nargrukk ‘Ard Kangutzz, Da Krimzun Feend
— Heavy Armour, Ulagzz Akkrit Axe, Enchanted Shield, Warboss Ummz Best Boss ‘At, Biggedz Kikkin’ Bootz, and Boar mount. 275pts

[Hero, Battle Standard Bearer] Black Orc Big Boss Skumzog Irungorr, Da Butcha uv Bork
— Armed to da Teef, Morkz Spirit Totem. 160pts

[Hero, Level 2 Wizard] Orc Shaman Zogmagog Deffrukka, Madlad uv Mork
— Nuffink, runt! 100pts

[Hero] Black Orc Big Boss Skarzog Deffgit, Da Duffa uv Dork
— Armed to da Teef. 85pts

Character Total: 620pts

Core:
23 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Shield, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 169pts
24 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Shield, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 169pts
24 Orc Boyz with Choppa, Shield, Standard Bearer, and Orc Boss. 169pts

Core Total: 501pts

Special:
10 Orc Boarboyz with Choppaz, Spearz, Light Armour, Shieldz, Standard Bearer and Boar mounts. 234pts
10 Orc Boarboyz with Choppaz, Spearz, Light Armour, Shieldz, Standard Bearer and Boar mounts. 234pts
15 Black Orcs with Armed to da Teef and Standard Bearer. 207pts
15 Black Orcs with Armed to da Teef and Standard Bearer. 207pts

Special Total: 882pts

Army Total: 2003pts
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kalador101 · Starting Line Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 290

Looks like a possibility. I don't see any musicians in your list. They tend to be low cost and worth their points. Breaking ties in CC is nice, the +1 to rally attempts can also work nice.
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orkdom · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

It's been suggested that I drop the extra level on the shaman, so may I could swap it out for musician in some units?

I'm thinking it will be the boarboyz and the regular boyz who get them first...?

It's also been suggested that in leiu of lvl 2 and the spirit totem (which gives 1 dispell die for each rank in a unit-- so 5 before casualties in a boyz mob) in favor of dispell scrolls on my shaman and some weaponsand stuff for my BSB to toughen him up a bit. What do you think?
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kalador101 · Starting Line Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 290

Musicians are really only optional in units you never expect to win close combat. Also, they are so cheap, that they are usually worth it even there.

As you are dropping down to only one magic user it might be best to make him a lvl1 scroll caddy. Just don't expect to get much if any spells off. I find the minimum number of casters to start getting much of a magic phase being 2. I would work out multiple lists. One with the scroll caddy and one without.

Buying better equippment can be a good idea for your BSB. He isn't as tough as a Dwarf one, and can't hide in the back like a Skaven one.

Another idea to ponder is unit sizes. You should work on having enough models to fill out full ranks when possible. Another I remember from playing skaven is that overall unit sizes of 4x+1 are best as you take panic tests when you lose 1/4 of your troops to shooting like in 40k. With your orc's slightly lower ld, you may want to keep this in mind. Once a Unit gets out of place, it can hurt your whole battle plan.
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orkdom · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:

The boyz units will all be 25 strong with characters (in 5 ranks of 5), which is 4(6)+1, in addition to being over 20 orcs so that things like an Idol of Gork have a greater chance of being effective even if there are a few shooting casualties.

My problem with the idea of a scroll caddy is that it just seems a waste to take a shaman when I don't really plan on using whatever his spell is. I would rather save 100pts just not taking one than save 10 and get a single walking dispell. It's one use only, could more than pay for musicians if it weren't there, is too meager to really do much spellwork after it uses the scroll (and it will only have 1 it can use anyways, and not necessarily a reliably useful one), and has the added worry of "is this realy the right time to use it?"

Why shouldn't I feel safe against most armies with the 5 extra dispell dice I get from the Spirit Totem? That ought to give me a reasonable chance against most spells, and I can use them every time, rather than one shot and being left with a basically useless model (by yours and others' accounts of lone lvl 1 casters).

I do think I'll put my BSB on a boar for some added protection, but I'm thinking that should be enough. He's a Blorc character after all, so he's got all the weapons and armour free of charge.
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